Note: This is a long post, and I apologize. But I guess that's kind of the point.
If there's one thing I like about the atheist community, it's that we always argue. Last year ISSA had meeting where we went into small groups with members of the Navigators to talk about whatever we wanted, and in my group the topic of free will came up. After a short period of time I noticed that an argument had started, although it was between the atheists in the group, with the Christian just sitting back watching, kind of surprised with a smile on his face. Over time I've gotten the impression that arguing isn't as frequent among the religious communities, and it's something I applaud atheists for always doing, although of course I don't find too surprising. Atheists love to argue.
The problem, though, that people are bad at arguing. And atheists are no exception. Obviously the more complex the situation the more difficult it is to argue, and this is exactly what we're seeing with the Rebecca Watson situation. This is especially clear if you read
PZ's take and spend ten or so minutes reading the comments. It's a situation that both sides are very passionate about- which is not only not a bad thing, but a good thing. But because of this we have to make sure that we are very clear on what the issues are when we are arguing and not mistakenly lump them together or be unclear. If this occurs we often argue about things we don't want to, and eve things we probably agree upon. I'm going to use the Rebecca Watson situation as an example of this, for two reasons: 1) Because it is an excellent example of this, and 2) Because it's timing is relevant. And, let's add a third reason as well: 3) Because I was there in the audience, so I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the issues at play.
First, and most important thing to consider: What are the broader issues going on here? When we look at the situation, there are two questions that need to be discussed, in the broadest sense:
1. Was Rebecca Watson's view on the implications of her elevator situation under the lens of feminism correct?
That's not to say that this, in and of itself, isn't a ridiculously complicated subject. Other questions that may stem from this include:
- Were the man's actions appropriate within the context of which they occurred? People disagree on this. It's a great discussion, and we should talk about it. Discussion stemming from this may raise such questions as:
- Do the man's actions demonstrate sexual objectification? This is an interesting topic as well, and can lead to another question:
- Is sexual objectification inherently wrong? If yes,
- How can men proposition women in a way that doesn't make them feel sexually objectified?
- Where's the line between being anti-woman and just being creepy and awkward? Or drunk and stupid?
- If you agree that the actions of the man were not only stupid but also an example of misogyny, is this a problem within the atheist community or a problem with our culture in general?
In addition, it often helps creating analogous situations that has similar issues going on, so the issues can be talked about in a more impartial manner. Here is a specific example which I did not come up with but I have heard been used multiple times from different people in independent situations:
- Would this situation be any different if it was a gay man propositioning another gay man? Or a woman propositioning a man? Maybe you don't think this is analogous to Watson's situation. If you don't, you would need to justify and explain how we need to treat men propositioning women in this situation different than other gender combinations. Valid arguments can be brought up.
So, that's the first issue going on (Whew!). Here's the second:
2. Was it appropriate for Watson to call out Stef in the manner in which she did?
Here we have a question that many people disagree upon. Many of the students think yes, this is inappropriate, but many individuals, including PZ Myers, disagree. The most important thing here to note is that this question, the way it is set up, has nothing to do with feminism. Your opinions on the first issue have nothing to do with this one. Let me repeat that for clarification: Your opinions on the first issue have nothing to do with this one. You can bring feminism into the argument, but only if you answer this question:
- Does the fact that Watson is discussing a feminist issue help justify her actions? If so, why?
Other important questions:
- Is it appropriate for a relatively famous individual within the community to criticize/call out a student leader without as much of a voice within said community? This should be one of the first issues discussed. Get the opposing side's view on this in general (you may agree with each other!) before getting more specific:
-How is the previous question affected by the medium in which the criticism/calling out is done? (Keynote speaker on podium versus member of the audience who was not aware of the situation in advance).
Here's an example of an analogous situation that can be given. I use Chris Steadman only because I think he is at a similar level of visibility as Watson and has demonstrated that he does not agree with the actions of people who participated in DMD, not because he actually said or did any of these things. So please don't get caught up in the fact that I'm using his name. This event is entirely fictional, and I don't have any reason to believe that he would engage in this behavior:
Chris Steadman has a talk at a conference on the importance of working with religious groups. He starts the presentation by bringing up Draw Muhammad day, and quotes different youtube comments showing blatant Islamophobia and probably racism. Quotes might include, "All Muslims should get out of the US," "All Muslims are terrorists," and suggestions that all Muslims were responsible for 9/11. Very poor use of grammar and foul language is rampant within these quotes. He then specifies that even atheists are saying these things, and bring up a couple more quotes from popular atheist blogs saying similar things in a similar tone.
Then he says, "And the worst part about this is that these kinds of racist and Islamophobic comments are said by people here at this very conference!" and brings up a quote by a student in the audience on why he or she thinks Draw Muhammad day was justified, if not necessary, given the context of the situation.
Then he spends the next hour talking about why we should work with religious groups before taking Q and A.
Here we have a similar situation: There are two questions going on: 1) Was it appropriate for Steadman to call out the student in the manner in which he did? and 2) Was DMD an appropriate course of action to protest the South Park death threats? In order to discuss the second issue current prejudices Muslims are already facing in the US will be brought up, and it will be discussed how that affects the situation. But these are two separate issues, that need to be discussed separately.
Our minds are very good at thinking; we already have opinions on all of these issues, and many more I didn't mention, and used them to come to our own conclusions on the Watson situation as a whole. We don't even think about how all these issues tie into our final verdict, but they do. And they did for your opponent as well. So if you want to argue with someone about something like this, you have to understand their views on these issues first. Figure out exactly what you disagree on before you start arguing about it. Will this consume a lot of time? Yes. Is it necessary to have a useful argument? Unfortunately, yes. This is the reality of how our minds work and how we come to conclusions on these sorts of complex issues.
By the end of the argument there might still not be a final consensus about the issue, but at the very least you will have a better understanding on precisely what elements of the situation you agree and disagree, which is a Hell of a lot better than what we're doing now. Although the fact that I don't think this kind of careful discussion is possible over the medium of comments on a blog post doesn't help the situation. There's a reason discussions never get anywhere when arguing on the Internet.
And if you disagree, I'd be more than happy to argue about it :)